What are your thoughts on the 2012 enigma?

[Steven Burnand]

We are coming up to a unique planetary alignment in 2012 when our sun will arrive at it's solar centre.

There are many videos on YouTube about this subject and about the many social and political events now taking place, including evidence of an emerging new world order. What are you thoughts on these enigmatic developments?

For a broader perspective on 2012 and the new world order please go to -

http://2012armageddonnwo.ning.com/

This site offers a vast video library and much more on this subject matter.

Sending best wishes to all…Steve

[oceanick6]

You know I was just kidding right? I didn't mean any offense. Hope non was taken.

[Steven Burnand]

Hi Skip, the self-hating humans have a built in tendency to self destruct. The only problem with this is the damage they do, to the whole whilst doing so. New social structure need to be designed that take into account both part and whole.

The old ism's clearly do not function as they create positions of power and the abuse of power. New methods of trade need to be designed, ones that keep the energy flowing and do not allow it to be blocked and accumulated at the expense of the whole.

The LETS system is a start, but this model needs to be expanded.

There is enough food and resources to feed and house the planet and its only through trade embargoes and greed that the shortages are present.

The fair trade scheme is a start but there are many more issues that need to be addressed.

Here is an insightful piece of film footage on Argentina's Economic Collapse.

Argentina was on par with the UK at the time and apart from the language was culturally the same. Note the government hi-jacking all the money under arm guard and the people going back to work 'without' their bosses! Looking at the hardship these people went through I feel its important to start thinking of a 'we the people' based new world order now. As it says in the book new skins for new the new wine.

Argentina's Economic Collapse

Just one more point of interest , the dinosaurs are still with us! Nature in all its wisdom has converted the heaviest species on the planet to the lightest and given it wings. Is that not a great example of balance?

[Skip Press]

I like that dinosaur analogy.

On the self-haters, do you know how many Hollywood movies are coming that are post-apocalypse? Here's an article -

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204619004574318630585...

Hollywood injects negative thought and emotion into the culture too often. They're mostly just projecting the desolation of their own spirits with these films. On the flip side, people all caught up in the "reward after this life" business often have given up on this life and want an apocalypse and "end times" because deeply psychologically they seek an end to their suffering. People like those who participate in the Intention Experiment aren't built that way - they know there's something that can be done and things can change instantly.

Currently there's a tendency in South and Central America to turn all power over to someone who rails against greedy rich people, and that person simply is a greedy person who wants to be a rich dictator, like that walking pig Chavez. By 2012, the transparency of such beasts will assure their demise. All "collective" social movements end up with "more equal than other animals" beasts on top like in the novel "Animal Farm."

[Steven Burnand]

Hi Skip, it's not the rallying of people that counts it's the creative design

Each and everyone of us has that creative spark within when looked for. I new world will not be handed to us all on a plate by a dictator or someone rallying against a dictator or class, it will come from within by creative design.

The notion of something for nothing is what has lead us all into this mess in the first place.

Many have sat back and allowed others to use their taxes in any which way they see fit.

The old systems are dying and its now time to be designing and building new ones in readiness for the death of the old system.

Its a time for taking responsibility of our own actions in relationship to the whole as well as the part. Its the 'both' factor and not the either or structure that is in its death knell.

Even the Greek from whom this past few generations have taken their philosophical model understood that logic alone was seriously flawed.

That's why they used Socratic dialogue.This Yin Biased part of their philosophical was deliberately missed out by those that designed the economy of the industrial revolution.

In a way missing out this vital question and answer skill can be likened to the birth of New Speak.

The same has been done with maths, measuring the quantity and ignoring the directional qualities of energy.A navigator understands directions. A social structure that does not understand or use personly use navigational skills is led by those that do.

As you say its a YANG based system that's missing the YIN. ....Steve

[Skip Press]

I should make something clear. I really don't give a damn what the Mayans had to say. They're a totally dead civilization who screwed themselves. All these people running off to find Mayan and Toltec and Aztec "buried wisdom" like there's some great knowledge to be gained are fools. An equivalent are those who live their lives around predicted "end times" from Revelations. Forward progress is made by people who have an eye to the past but build from the present into the future. And I'm not someone working all the time for "peace" - that's weak and whiny, and life doesn't evolve from the weak and whiny. I just work for a better world.

[Steven Burnand]

Hi Skip, I do not feel the same way as you do about previous knowledge and the Mayans. As a race there are still some Mayan survivors today. I believe the Mayans inherited their knowledge on the calendar wheels from a much older race.

As far as conventional history from the education system goes, I believe that we have been told many lies and the time lines we have all been given are wrong. The latest discoveries in 'forbidden' archaeology show technical cultures as far back as 15 to 20 thousand years or more. The latest discoveries that predate the ice age are facinating.

I am some what puzzled in what you say above as you pointed me at the yugas and spoke about pattern using systems.

I go along with Gregg Breyden and other that recognise fractal patterns that span accross what commonly known as time.

The vivital part is the present, but without the past you and I would not be hear and be able to write out these wonderful thought experiments, so to me, its past, present and future brought together in the present that makes sense.

That is 'make' in the true nature of the word. The future is the unknown and it takes navigational skills 'learnt in the past' to navigate and explore it.

The universe is organised. Fractals are used as they save energy and my beliefs tell me that the universe is trying to become more and more efficient. In other words a self organising system.

On our scale is difficult to comprehend the larger patterns due to their size and duration in formation and reformation.

You are right peace is not always possible, buts its certainly the best option. I choose peace over war, but if I was in a situation that I needed to fight I would without hesitation. There are some unscrupulousness souls that would give you no option. This is the way of the TAO. Some misunderstand 'The sage takes no action' In reality the action by the sage is so efficient that the effort is not witnessed, so to the unenlightened observer 'it appears to be' no action.

There is much evidence to show that the word 'work' and 'worship' have be been infused in that I 'work' with god. This is not as disrespectful as it sounds, as I myself a great respect for the greater and I am humbled by the small part I play within it.

It appears that worship is a human need and those corrupt souls that crave it 'could be' the downfall of our civilisation. Personally I do not see the 10% of the worlds population that live like false gods by exploiting us all, going without a fight. Greed and the lust for power is a sickness that has overcome most of their rationale.

I am all for positive intentions and thinking, but without taking action, these parts of the greater process of change are infective. The doing part on the physical, mental and spiritual all synchronised in the present, is the key.

Its an and/or process and this tends to confuse the logical mind. Even the Greeks that gave us logic did not use logic for their intuitions into change and the future. They used Socratic dialogue. Can you imagine a school system that is designed to produce factory fodder using this methodology?

The student using Socratic Dialogue would learn/be able to question, the teachers perceptions! The illusions and the lack of choices in answers would soon show up to be falsehoods. :O)

Thoughts from within the glass asylum ....Steve

[Skip Press]

There have been morons marching around crying peace, peace for a long time and achieving little. It usually takes people using force to vanquish bad guys and establish a society where it is possible to have the peace and space to innovate.

All the Central American "civilizations" ended in very bloody ways, and you can't blame their demise on the Spanish. So it's really a bit ridiculous how many people are making money and looking for deep meaning from the Mayan calendar.

That isn't to say there aren't real cycles just as there are fractals and Fibonacci numbers and Elliott Waves - that stuff is actually provable science, just as astronomy is science but astrology is not.

If Saddam Hussein marches into Kuwait and starts looting and killing, only an army kicking his butt solves the problem. That's science. Force has certain implications, and that's why the Dalai Lama only uses ninjas as bodyguards.

So if the Mayan calendar points out certain patterns and they prove true, great, but I'm not marching off to Central or South America looking for meaning in countries ruled by viciously evil despots like Hugo Chavez - who would cut your throat as easily as looking you.

I'm also not buying into goofy ideas that Obama is the antichrist and we're in the end times, blah blah. He's just a communist jerk trying to destroy America and freedom, all the while acting like he has something else in mind.

So while I know that things like the Intention Experiment and directed thought and prayer works, and I know why it works scientifically, I'm not into all the New Age hearts and flowers let's glow the world into peace business. People who change the world like Buddha, Jesus, and others, are a lot more practical about things.

[Zen Benefiel]

Skip,

I understand your position and am of the opinion that we have to be clear about the state of the world as it is now. That is where the work needs to be done. We work for a better world.

It just so happens that there is a nice story line that goes along with it. You, of all people, can appreciate a good story - one that strikes like an arrow through the heart of humanity is what we need now. Something that takes us out of the religious superstitions and misinformation to glean the wisdom of now.

I find it interesting that even though you are outspoken about the fools, you are expressing the ethical concerns about the truth of the times. That is congruent with what I know about the gleaning of wisdom from the reservoirs of regurgitated information we still don't seem to 'get.' The average person cares more about their ego's safety than losing it to do something important toward life.

Regardless of the stories, they all point in a general direction of humanity getting a wake up call. Those who hear it seem to at least consider the options for making a better world and sometimes even collaborate to do so. It would be nice to have at least a few folks leading the pack, sharing a big picture view with a plan, but most of the time those folks are off doing the work.

You've got a huge body of knowledge that few have, Skip, and the ability to cut to the core because of your experience. What could you contribute to how folks craft their new stories, the ones that have them making a better world? What, from your years of riding the mobius operandi of the story, do you see as a new myth for the new millennium?

Namaste,
Zen

[Steven Burnand]

Hi Zen, spot on, life is a construct and its 'our' choice, IF we realise we have a choice to construct a life that's good for us all.

The text tells us nothing is real, but sadly this is a misinterpretation under present understanding of what is real! I have had people tell me that 'if they got hit by a bus that would be real' but this statement goes way beyond an answer like that, in that 'we' create our own reality, so with the bus scenario, there would be underpasses across the road or all buses would travel at 10 mile an hour ect.

The future is by design and the choice is ours, do we choose to let others that do not have our best interests at heart navigate our ship and design our future or do we choose to have a hand in the creation of our future our selves?

Taking responsibility is an adult choice and leaving others to choose for us is a child's choice. Yet both child and adult need to be present in a design model of our future.

Eric Berne called this infusion of parent and child 'the little professor' the bible calls this fusion 'through the eyes of a child' The unknown is the unknown and going into the unknown with a ridged ideas of known will lead to disaster.

So what script do we all need to write for the next chapter? The world is a stage so lets write a great play that benefits each and everyone of us and all play our part in this production!

'The actors and bishops are here, we are taking the part that we thought from the start was an honest one, who will be the last clown to bring the house down, oh no do not let the curtain fall' ...Super tramp - Crime of the Century. ....Steve ....Steve

[joe weaver]

Great info Skip, thanks for contributing. I see your views to be right on target. It's all starting to come together. More and more people each day are starting to awaken. All we can do is keep spreading the word. : )

Peace brother,
Joe

www.greenze.com

[Steven Burnand]

Hi Joe and Skip it's more than just becoming aware, it's the working together hrough these times of change that is paramount to our survival. Here is a gret interview from the aware show with Gregg Brayden. Greggs thoughts and aspiration reflect my own to a large extent and I had the honour of working with someone back the late eighties that took Gregg's recent work to the next level.

Steve PS: MP3 below and as below so above! :O)

[C-JEAN]

Hi, Steven and all.

I see this subject pop up once in a while.
It's obvious that there are too many answers [112 pages] to read them all.
I did check if "I" ever answered in here, and no, I never did.

So here is my idea/suggestion to know a little bit more about 2012.

IF one **trusts** the type of communication that Edgar Cayce did,
I suggest that one reads: "The Ra material".

http://www.thesonsofthelawofone.com/lawofonepdfs.html

The message is fantastic, and it answers MANY questions.

Blue skies.